Learn How to Talk to Anyone, Even If You Feel Shy and Insecure

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If you see me today talking to strangers on The IPS Podcast and doing these videos here, you wouldn’t say that I used to be a very shy person. But I was. In fact, it’s quite an understatement. I was always the quietest person in the class or in any room. 

Through the years, all this changed when I applied all the techniques, skills, and knowledge (and a lot of effort and work) of the ways to talk to anyone, and when I did the deeper inner work of increasing my self-confidence and taking a hard look at my own self-limiting beliefs.

These are all things that I am sharing here in this extended video. If you are a shy or insecure person (or both), try applying everything shared in this video and giving it time. True change, like with me, is bound to happen.

Websites:

  • - 5x3 cards for the cognitive cue card and the behavioral coping card 
  • - Big Talk (Big Talk provides the inspiration, tools, and services to help people move past small talk and make more meaningful life connections – with loved ones, teammates, classmates, coworkers, strangers, new acquaintances, and even oneself.)
  • - The And (Card decks for every relationship. All With 199 unique questions each.)


Podcasts:

  • - Strengthen Your Empathy with Karen Faith: It’s Not a Feeling; It’s a Practice (In this episode on The IPS Podcast, learn how to strengthen your empathy with people researcher and empathy trainer Karen Faith.)
  • - Kalina Silverman: How to Have Better Conversations – Skip the Small Talk (In this episode of The IPS Podcast, we invited the founder of Big Talk, Kalina Silverman, to chat about how to have better conversations.)
  • - How to Rewire Your Brain to Be Happy | Dr. Rick Hanson, Ph.D. | The Science of Happiness (In this episode on The IPS Podcast, Dr. Rick Hanson, leading expert on positive neuroplasticity, talks about how you can rewire your brain to be happy.)


Videos:

  • - Brené Brown on Empathy (What is the best way to ease someone's pain and suffering? In this beautifully animated RSA Short, Dr Brené Brown reminds us that we can only create a genuine empathic connection if we are brave enough to really get in touch with our own fragilities.)


Books:

  • - How to Win Friends & Influence People (How to Win Friends and Influence People is a 1936 self-help book written by Dale Carnegie. Over 30 million copies have been sold worldwide, making it one of the best-selling books of all time. Carnegie had been conducting business education courses in New York since 1912.)


People Mentioned:

  • - Karen Faith (Karen Faith is an ethnographer and strategist whose work has guided teams and initiatives at Google, Amazon, Indeed, The NBA, The ACLU, Blue Cross Blue Shield, The Federal Reserve Bank, and The Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art, among many others. She lives in New York, where she is the CEO and founder of Others Unlimited, an empathy training company.)
  • - Dr. Rick Hanson (Dr. Rick Hanson is a notable psychologist, author, and teacher recognized for his expertise in the intersection of neuroscience, mindfulness, and well-being. He emphasizes the concept of "neuropsychology," which involves understanding how brain function impacts emotions and personal development. Hanson has authored books such as "Buddha's Brain" and "Resilient," offering insights into using mindfulness and positive neuroplasticity to enhance mental health and happiness.)
  • - Kalina Silverman (Kalina Silverman is known for her "Big Talk" project, which encourages meaningful conversations between people by asking deeper and more thought-provoking questions. She gained attention through her TEDx Talk titled "How to Skip the Small Talk and Connect with Anyone." In her talk, she emphasizes the importance of having authentic and meaningful conversations to foster genuine connections.)
  • - Brené Brown (Brené Brown is a well-known researcher, author, and speaker famous for her TED Talk on vulnerability. Her work focuses on emotions, authenticity, and relationships. She's written best-selling books like "Daring Greatly", and she emphasizes the importance of vulnerability and resilience for personal growth and strong connections.
  • - Dale Carnegie (Dale Carnegie was an American writer and lecturer, and the developer of courses in self-improvement, salesmanship, corporate training, public speaking, and interpersonal skills.)

Jellis Vaes
What's up, everyone? Jellis here. The founder of The IPS project. If you see me right now, or if you see me talking on The IPS Podcast to guests, you wouldn't immediately say that I used to be a very, very shy person and that I used to be the quietest person in the class. I had no clue at all how to go up to girls. I just didn't dare to do any of that. Now, over the years, I have actually got a lot, a lot better at it, to the point where I can say right now that I have almost zero problems with going up to almost anyone. Now, when it comes down to talking to anyone, it actually has to do with two things, and the first one is self-esteem. And if I look back at my own past, I used to have such low self-esteem. And for many people, if they have trouble walking up to someone or just having a conversation with someone, it has to do with self-esteem. There's something there that is not exactly right. And then the second thing is actually having the skill of knowing how to talk to someone, how to get the conversation started, how to keep going.

Jellis Vaes
And those are actually the two main themes that I want to talk about here in this video that I've learned from my own personal experience that really have worked by having read many, many books on this topic and having just tried many of them in practice. And also just what I use one on one with clients who struggle with self-esteem and who want to go and talk to someone or who want to do that more. Some of the exercises and the techniques that I'm going to explain have been of great help to them.

Jellis Vaes
You got to know that this is an inner skill that requires practice. And this is something that I will talk about again at the end of the video because it's a really important reminder. Just as going to the gym, this too requires practice and a lot of practice to get good at it.

Jellis Vaes
So let's start with the first thing that I actually want to talk about, and that's just ways to get the conversation going. It sounds so simple, but so many people overlook it, and that is to smile more or to smile. Some people are just not aware that they almost don't do that, that they look very serious and very unapproachable.

Jellis Vaes
If I would show you right now a photo of someone who doesn't smile, who can also almost look angry sometimes, and I would show you a photo now of someone who smiles, who of these two people would you be preferring to walk up to and start a conversation? Most people, or at least I would pick the person who smiles. They just feel warmer and more approachable. And the reason why this will help you to talk to more people is because this also gives the chance for more people to actually walk up to you. But also if you walk up to someone and you just have an almost stone cold face or an almost angry face, it doesn't feel very nice to talk to someone like that. So it's practicing smiling and not underestimating the importance of a simple smile and letting that appear a few more times on your face in a social context. I have in the coworking place where I work, some people who and I don't mean to say anything bad about them, their face is very much blank and they don't smile, which also has resulted in me wanting to talk to them way less or say hi to them way less.

Jellis Vaes
And I do that almost unconsciously, like many people, because they just look like they don't want to let anyone in and maybe that's what they're going for, right? But you have a lot of times people who are not going for that, but who are doing that. Practice smiling in the mirror, how weird that that might look, or how weird that that might feel to do at first, just do that every morning when you wake up and you look at yourself, just try to smile at yourself. It's nice to do that. Your body language does so much in a conversation. Now, a way to actually help you get reminded of this, to smile when you are going to a place like a party or some other event where there are people is to actually use a cognitive cue card. And this is something that I use with a lot of clients for different reasons, but it can be applied to this one as well. So a cognitive cue card, these are just very small cards that you can easily put, like in your wallet, for example, to have with you. You can buy them in many different stores.

Jellis Vaes
I will actually link in in the description, a link to buy them. I would recommend you order those. They're like nice cards, they're a bit harder, so they don't easily break like paper. And then right at the top, cognitive cue cards. So cognitive cue cards write the number one there and a cognitive cue card aims at reminding your head, your cognition. When you're at a party, you can just simply write this next to number one. Remember to smile when you are at that party and you're like damn, it's really hard again to just talk to people or for people to come to me, just go to the side, go to the toilet, take that card out, this cognitive cue card that is there to help you. You create this right now for your future self in situations where you need help. And you see, remember to smile and you think of it again, like, oh, yeah, wait, that's important to do because of what Jellis said in his video. And then you get reminded of it, and you try it, and who knows? It can increase the chances even a little bit that it might help at that moment.

Jellis Vaes
But we need reminders in life, using a cognitive cue card is a very, very simple but very effective tool to use. So I used to travel a lot. I traveled around the whole world, or well, basically around the whole world almost and met a lot of people. And a very easy thing there when traveling was to get a conversation started. Actually, you could start with the same line do almost everyone, where are you from? It's a bit harder to do that in your hometown, right? Having a good way to start a conversation can be tricky. There's actually one thing that you can use pay attention to something that they have or something that you see. If I would ask you right now to start a conversation with me based on something that you see right now here in this room, what do you see here in this room that picks your curiosity? If I would just pick something for you, it could be, for example, the painting over there, right? You could just say like, oh, that's a nice painting, and that right there is something that can get a conversation started.

Jellis Vaes
Then you got to continue with the questions where you just can't answer only a yes or a no on. Why, how, where, what, when. Those are things that you can't just simply say yes or no to. So you could, for example, make a sentence saying like "Oh, that's a nice painting actually. When did you buy it?" I could say like "I didn't buy it actually I got this. And now you can say like "Oh, you got it. Who gave you that painting? Who made that painting?" I could say like, "It's my sister who made that painting. She's a very skilled artist and I love all her work." And that gets the conversation to go from there on, we could move to other areas, right? But it is just like I gave as the first example when traveling, you just got to find some line to start because starting with everything is often one of the hardest things. Also going on can be very hard, but we'll talk about that later.

Jellis Vaes
This can also be applied to a person. For example, if you see someone who has a tattoo, that's a very, very easy thing to get a conversation to start with. Walk up to that person and say like "Hey, I noticed your tattoo. What is it about? When did you get it? Where did you get it?" Again, these open questions that you can't simply answer with yes or no. And it gets the conversation to go, paying attention to something either in the room or to the person. You can also add to these cue cards. You can write number two and write pay attention to something they have or to the environment. You can write that down there. All right, so you got the conversation started. Now how do you keep it going? Right? Pretend that you have to give a presentation about that person. What? If you have to give a presentation about a specific topic or a specific person, what do you do? You have to gather as much information about that person, okay? If you keep that in your head and you are walking up to that person, you started the conversation, okay, you got to give a presentation about that person. Now you have to gather information, right? You have to learn more about them. What do you do in life? Where are you from? What do you just like doing in your free time? And then in each one of those categories, you can also dive deeper, right?

Jellis Vaes
Like, what do you like? Oh, I like running. Oh, cool. How long have you been doing that? Do you go running alone with friends? Any reasons why you started running? Do you do any other sports? Those are all other fields to explore in that category that can be useful for your presentation that you got to give about that person. Now, don't of course, make it look awkward by just firing questions away to them and that it almost feels like an interview to them. In a good conversation, there's some kind of dynamic, right? You ask something, they ask maybe something later to you as well. There is some kind of dialogue, right? That's a good conversation. People WAFF talking about themselves. People love that. Of course, you also have to be genuinely interested in that person and also in that try to give your full attention to them if they're talking, if they're sharing something. Because one of the most annoying things that immediately breaks a conversation is when they are sharing something and you look at your phone or you look away. Pay attention to them when they're sharing something. If you do that, people really will feel that you are actually trying to listen and that you're there in the moment with that.

Jellis Vaes
And that builds connection. I had on The IPS Podcast, Kalina Silverman, the founder of Big Talk, and she made a card game with just a whole bunch of open-ended questions about life. There are also called another company called The And which also makes card games like that. And they have different editions. They got the Friends edition, the Relationships edition, the Dating edition, the Strangers edition, and a bunch more. But specifically, the Dating and the Strangers Edition are interesting or relevant right now, here for this video, I would say buy it. And if you go to a party, take a couple of those cards out, don't look at them yourself, because that will kind of spoil the fun in a way. And you could go and have this conversation started with someone by applying what we just talked about first and you could then go on and say, like, look, I think maybe this is kind of weird, but how do you feel about taking a card and answering a personal question? I had a friend who actually did this who actually took cards with him to a party, and I can tell you he was the center of attention. So many people were coming to him. I thought to myself, like, damn, that's really smart. That's good to do. I don't have the Strangers edition or the Dating edition, but I do have the Friends edition, which you can also use actually for dates.

For example, this whole video about conversations and how to talk to someone. A big part of that is also learning how to ask good questions. And this card game actually allows you to practice that. Having that card game with you on a date is super original and a lot of people find it very fun it's a great way, again to get to know each other really. And on top of that, also practice this skill of learning how to ask good questions and deeper questions. There are questions in there that you never thought of asking in that specific way, actually, and that might be to strangers too, or on a date. They're great ways to get to know someone and to continue or to get a conversation to keep going as well. The sweetest thing that you can say to someone is their name. And there are many books like How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie that talk about that. And it's so true.

Jellis Vaes
If you remember someone's name from a party and you see them again and you talk to them by their name, they'll be surprised about that actually, because they feel important. You remember their name. But also at the moment, in the moment when you talk to them and you use their name a couple of times, they feel important because of that same reason you remember their name. Now, the best way to sort of remember someone's name right in the moment is to use it directly. If someone says, hey, my name is Jake, then immediately use that name. Hey, Jake, where are you from? Hey, Jake, what do you think of the event right now? Hey, Jake, have you met any other interesting people here at this event? Try to say it a couple of times consciously so you will store it in your memory more. If you don't use it, you will lose it. And it goes for many things, but also for names. Now, another way that you can use to remember someone's name, if it's kind of a more special name, for example, or a different name, for example, with my name, Jellis. I often even say this to people. Think of a jellyfish. Jelly... And then make jelly... Jellies... Jellis from that. It makes a little bit of sense. It starts with the same letter with a j. Jelly. Jellis. And you can make some kind of connection. Like "Oh Jelly... What was his name again? Jellyfish... Jellis... Jellis. All right."

Jellis Vaes
Maybe there's an even better thing that you can use to remember my name. But using something like that, making more connections to that name, helps you remember that term, helps you remember that word, that name. In this case. Now, that too, you can write down on this cue card, remember the person's name. On The IPS Podcast, I interviewed Karen Faith and she's an empathy trainer. And yes, you heard that right, an empathy trainer. Empathy plays a big role, a really big role in connecting with someone and letting someone feel a connection between the two of you. I can, first of all, highly recommend that interview with Karen Faith. As she states, empathy is a practice. It's not something that you have or you don't have. You can deliberately get better at empathy. Now, what is empathy, and why does empathy matter? I will actually play a little clip from that interview and let Karen Faith explain it to you.

Jellis Vaes
 You have these words like empathy, compassion, sympathy. They're thrown out very often intertwined, or they're the same thing. What is the difference, though, between empathy, sympathy and compassion? And why choose empathy over these other ones?

Karen Faith
Well, I'll tell you. In short, empathy is the only one that doesn't require someone to be suffering. Compassion is for people who are suffering. Sympathy is for people who are suffering. Empathy is just stepping out of my point of view and stepping into your point of view. And I can do that with you if you're happy, if you're confused, if you're suffering, if you're not suffering. Empathy is a cognitive practice of understanding. Now, there are actually a couple of different kinds of empathy, but the kind that I teach and practice is a cognitive practice. It's a perspective-taking skill that allows me to understand where you're coming from and what your point of view is. And nobody has to be in pain for that to happen. And so that's, I think, for me, the primary difference.

Jellis Vaes
There's actually a very beautiful video from Brené Brown. She's a researcher who spent over two decades researching and studying courage, vulnerability, shame, and empathy. And she has a very beautiful video on YouTube called Empathy. I will also link it in the description that shows the difference between empathy and sympathy and also beautifully shows the importance of having empathy in a conversation, especially if it's about something personal. If someone shared something because of the card game that you used, for example, a personal thing, showing empathy to that person, showing true understanding or trying at least to understand them, that helps to create that connection that is so vital to have good conversations and to ultimately have friendships and relationships. If you want to learn more about empathy and the importance of it in conversations, then I would highly recommend you to listen to that interview with Karen Faith on The IPS Podcast and to check out that video from Brené Brown on empathy. It's a very short one and both of them can give you a great understanding of how to get better at empathy and also what empathy is about and the importance of empathy in a conversation.

Jellis Vaes
If you walk up to someone and you applied everything that I've shared here and it feels very forced, then maybe there's just not a connection between the two of you. Maybe there's not a good fit, which can very likely happen, right? Not every person on the street you're going to be the best friends with or not every person on the street is going to be the ideal date or partner. That's not going to be the case. So if it really feels very difficult to do all this, then it's not always your fault. Look for a connection. Also, after applying everything, look is there a connection? And you feel that, you feel that literally by how, in a way, smooth is this conversation going, and how easy is it for me to share some things? And how easy is it for that person to share things to me? And how personal can we become with each other? If that's not there at all, then remove yourself from that and go talk to someone else and apply everything again to someone else. Let's talk a little bit about self-esteem and how to actually improve that. How to improve self-esteem.

Jellis Vaes
Now, there are many ways to do that. I am mainly going to talk about two ways that I would say are the biggest ones. So the first one is to do things that you want to do, but that scare you. If you, for example, have always wanted to do public speaking, but you feel scared about it. And again, it's really that combination of doing something that you want to do that you feel somewhere excited about doing, but that does scare you. So a great example is a personal one. I used to be just terrified of heights, and I still am to a degree. But that's good, actually. It's good to be, to a degree, scared of heights. It keeps you alert. But at the same time, I love climbing. I love the movement of climbing. So I wanted to challenge myself in that. I wanted to see, I wanted to explore that. I was intrigued and curious about that fear.

And so I set out to climb a mountain which was Mont Blanc, the highest mountain in France and Italy. I prepared months for it. I went through an alpinism training for it, and I eventually did climb it. And when I came back from that, from that whole experience, my self-esteem, my like that whole experience, it created such a boost because I all of a sudden knew more about myself and what I was capable of, despite the fear that I was experiencing there and before it. But I knew that I was able to confront that fear and that I was able to live through it. And through that whole process, I learned more about what I was capable of as a person. And that right there creates confidence and a better and higher self-esteem because you see what more you can do. Pick two to three things every year that scare you but that you want to do. And that could be so many things. It can be public speaking, it can be going to a social event, can be singing lessons, taking singing lessons. It can be starting a specific sport like climbing, for example. Pause this video, take a piece of paper, and write down those things that you want to do but you're scared of. And then the next step is to actually look. How can you do that?

Jellis Vaes
And the best way to do this is if it's something that you can book right now. If, for example, you want to do public speaking, go to a Toastmasters event. Go to the website and apply. Already apply right now. Apply to go to it. Or you could also look for a coach if you have the money for that. And book a session. Book a session with that person right now.

Jellis Vaes
If I would have never booked that trip to climb Mont Blanc, I probably would have not done that. Even though if I wanted to do that, I probably would have not done that. Because it only becomes real when you've actually truly booked it and there's a date and a time that it will happen. And if you do that every year, you will see, just like I had with climbing in Mobile, how much your confidence and self-esteem will grow after that mountain. I continued booking more difficult mountains up until the point where I climbed the Matterhorn, like the ultimate goal that I set at that time that I thought I would never be able to reach. And once I climbed the Matterhorn, man my confidence, I feel a sort of respect for myself that I was able to do that knowing where I came from.

Jellis Vaes
True time, a lot is possible and also improving your self-confidence and self-esteem. But again, you got to book it. You got to do it more in a year. There is a reason why you have low self-esteem and low self-confidence and that has to do with self-limiting beliefs that you've picked up. Many of these self-limiting beliefs we have picked up from when we were young because of our environment. And self-limiting beliefs are beliefs such as I'm not good enough, I'm not fun, or people think I'm boring, no one loves me, no one likes me. Those are self-limiting beliefs that many people have with low self-esteem or low confidence. And this is a big reason why probably you have such a problem also going up to someone because there are self-limiting beliefs holding you back. If you have the self-limiting belief that no one will like you, well of course it's going to be way harder to walk up to someone because deep down you feel that that is true, that no one will like you. And this stems from our past. Now, this topic deserves a whole video on its own.

Jellis Vaes
If you want that, let me know down below in the comments. These self-limiting beliefs come from our past. But if you never worked on them, they're still going to be there. They're still going to be there to a degree. And almost everyone has some self-limiting belief. No one has a perfect past. And even if you have, there are still things that happen that can create self-limiting beliefs within you. Now, what do you do, right? What do you do with self-limiting beliefs? So first of all, and I do a lot of work around self-limiting beliefs at the early stages with Clients 101 because it's so fundamentally important that you get the right one. Because it's the root of so many people's problems. We got to start working on that first before we can work on the other problems that you have because they're caused by that.

Jellis Vaes
Think about what you call yourself when you feel hurt or you feel triggered by something that someone says or do if you're at a party and someone doesn't talk to you or looks kind of to you like they don't want to talk with you and you feel hurt. What happens? What thought happens in your head? What do you think? What do you feel? Do you feel like I'm not good enough or no one likes me? Look for the self-limiting belief through just some events from the past. Or from a recent one. When you felt hurt, what do you call yourself?

Jellis Vaes
And the way to work on these self-limiting beliefs is to flip them around. If you believe that you are not fun, what is the opposite of the coin that you're fun? Right? And then create an evidence log. That's what I use. And every day or every week write down a moment. It can be a super small moment where you felt or saw that you are a fun person. So someone said, or someone laughed at a joke that you said. That's a piece of good evidence that you are a fun person. So write that down. You could do that on a notetaking app or on a piece of paper or in a journal that you have and write down the dates and then the evidence of that moment, write down that moment. And the reason why we do that is because we got to challenge those self-limiting beliefs that we've picked up from the past and that we're still believing right now.

Jellis Vaes
Those self-limiting beliefs have become your go-to thought in the moment, in moments that you feel insecure or hurt. And yeah, you got to challenge them because they are not the truth. They're just a belief. Now, if you want to learn more about rewiring your brain because it's really doing this exercise, this evidence log, it's changing the circuits of your brain very slowly, but do that consistently and through a long period of time, and you will pick up more those moments where you did experience that you were a fun person. If you want to learn more about just rewiring your brain, then I would also recommend you to listen to the episode that I did with Dr. Rick Hansen. He's a psychologist and a leading expert in positive neuropsychology. We talk more about rewiring the brain there. In addition to this cognitive cue card, you also have something called a behavior card. So also take again a card, write down the behavior card. And here we actually want to write down, the next time I feel dot, dot, dot, and I'm tempted to dot, dot, dot instead. I will. And then we write down some options so you can write that down.

Jellis Vaes
The next time I feel hurt because I feel like I'm not fun and I am tempted to I don't know what you do then I'm tempted to leave the party. I'm tempted to get really angry. I'm tempted to get really sad. I will. And then we write down three things, three behavior things. And the difference between the cue card... This is the thinking and this is the behavior, right? Doing something is a behavior. So the next time that you feel like you're not a fun person and that you're tempted to, let's say, in this case, run away from the party, what can you do instead? Write down three things. And for example, you could write down look at the cognitive cue card. Or you could write down and look at my evidence log. Or you could write down just take a moment to question those beliefs that I have. Or you could write down something like, I don't know, call a friend, call someone that you trust. Or you could write down something like watch a motivational video on that topic that you're struggling with. Write down what could help you. And this takes some time to think about.

Jellis Vaes
Also, this is with a therapist or a coach also easier to do that together because you can both sort of think about strategies and ideas. It's very hard for me right now to give you good suggestions because this can be different. Well, for every person a bit, what might fit them best? Write down strategies that you right now know could help your future self when that person when your future self is in a situation when they feel hurt. So this cognitive cue card and this behavior card are very powerful and practical things that you can use in addition to. Everything that I've shared. They are not some magical cure or some magical tool that will just, if you use them, results in you always being able to talk to people. That's not how this works, but at least they can increase the chances of you being able to talk to someone and to keep a conversation going. So it's all about increasing chances. Okay, I want to end this video now by saying something that I also started or mentioned at the beginning of the video. Practice, practice, and practice. You got to practice. You got to practice doing this. Set a goal to do this for two to three years, to work three years on increasing your self-confidence and your self-esteem, and on getting better at these skills in conversations.

Jellis Vaes
If you don't give yourself a decent amount of time, you're going to fail. If you don't give yourself a decent amount of time to get in good shape, for example, or to build muscles, well, of course, you're going to fail at that because you don't allow the amount of time that is required to get those muscles or to get in good shape or to get good at these inner skills of getting better at conversations and improving your self-esteem and confidence.

Jellis Vaes
You will, after three years, look back and see, wow, I really came quite far from where I am right now. Now, again, the interviews that I mentioned here in this video and any other just resources that I mentioned, check the description down below as I will link them up there. If there's anything else that you want to share, do so down below in the comments. If you have any good tips that work for you that you want to share with other people, then I would love to know. So, yeah, don't hesitate to post the comments. I do hope that this video was useful to you and that if you give it some time that it can truly have an impact on your life.

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Jellis Vaes